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主题：（参考译文）【C-E 翻译之星】郭沫若《路畔的蔷薇》

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路畔的蔷薇
郭沫若

　　清晨往松林里去散步，我在林荫路畔发现了一束被人遗弃了的蔷薇。
　　蔷薇的花色还是鲜艳的，一朵紫红，一朵嫩红，一杂是病黄的象牙色中带着几分血晕。
　　我把蔷薇拾在手里了。
　　青翠的叶上已经凝集着细密的露珠，这显然是昨夜被人遗弃了的。
　　这是可怜的少女受了薄幸的男子的欺绐？还是不幸的青年受了轻狂的妇人的玩弄呢？昨晚上甜蜜的私语，今朝的冷清的露珠……
　　我把蔷薇拿到家里来了，我想找个花瓶来供养她。
　　花瓶我没有，我在一只墙角上寻着了一个断了颈子的盛酒的土瓶。
　　——蔷薇哟，我虽然不能供养你以春酒，但我要供养你以清洁流泉，清洁的素心。你在这破土瓶中虽然不免要凄凄寂寂地飘零，但比遗弃在路旁被人践踏了的好罢？

Wayside Roses

张培基译

　　Rambling through a pine forest early in the morning, I came across a bunch of forsaken roses lying by the shady wayside.

　　They were still fresh in colour. One was purplish-red, another pink, still another a sickly ivory-yellow slightly tinged with blood-red.

　　I picked them up in my hand.

　　The numerous fine dewdrops on the fresh green leaves clearly showed that the roses had just been cast away the previous night.

　　Were they pitiful maidens deflowered by fickle men? Or were they unlucky young men fooled by frivolous women? Last night's whispers of love; this morning's drops of dew……

　　I brought the roses home and tried to find a flower vase to keep them in.

　　Flower vase I had none, but I did find in a nook of my room an empty earthen wine bottle with its neck broken.

　　O dear roses, though unable to treat you to spring wine, I could offer you limpid spring water and my sincere heart. Wouldn't it be better for you to wither away in solitude in this broken earthen wine bottle than to lie abandoned by the roadside and be trodden down upon?

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心生双翼，宁静致远。岁月静好，你我同歌。

楼主 Date: 2009-06-03 16:27:30

沅芷澧兰

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什么时候我能到这种境界~~ 嗯，继续努力~~

Date: 2009-06-03 17:05:32

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引用christinaseeing于2009-06-03 17:25发表的文章:
请教一个问题, 病黄 sickly ivory-yellow
病黄是中文习惯,英文也是这样吗,我记得一个电影里字幕是你脸色很差, you're orange, 如果 sickly ivory-yellow 不符合英文习惯,为了贴和原作, 也要加上sickly?

FYI, a sickly colour is used to describe unpleasantly pale. It's a common usage in English expression.

Date: 2009-06-03 17:35:07

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引用christinaseeing于2009-06-03 20:32发表的文章:
thanks, i remember sickly. a sickly orange 一只病桔子

Dear Christina, you said thanks to me, or to someone else? ;p

Date: 2009-06-04 11:04:21

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Great debates going on here, I seemed to miss the turn.
最后由沅芷澧兰于 2009-06-04 11:32:06编辑

Date: 2009-06-04 11:30:18

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引用沅芷澧兰于2009-06-04 11:30发表的文章:
Great debates going on here, I seemed to miss the turn.
最后由沅芷澧兰于 2009-06-04 11:32:06编辑

And that was all because of 溟生's remark that 张先生是国内数一数二的散文翻译大师~~ If the interpreter were someone of less fame, I bet nobody would be bothered to pick holes in the translation. LOL...
On the other hand, it's the right learning attitude to challenge the authorities.
I'll not be involved in the debate for the time being, though, I'll continue to be the audience.

Date: 2009-06-04 12:00:24

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引用溟生于2009-06-04 13:08发表的文章:
I'm just telling the truth that he is universally acknowledged as the master of C-E translation of modern Chinese essays in China, which,surely, does not necessarily mean that his translation is perfect in each and every aspect. My point is that we can learn a great deal from his translation, challenging him also inclued.

Calm down, 溟生~~ I did not mention a single word on doubting you were telling the truth. Please read my thread carefully. Btw, we were guessing your age at another post. Now I think someone is right. You are probably very young.

Date: 2009-06-04 13:15:57

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I read Mr. Zhang's translation all over again. Frankly, other than the 5th para, I find the rest well built.
What I find inappropriate is the use of plural forms such as maidens, men & women. Rather, I believe the Chinese version referred to singular person.
Also, as mentioned by Alex, the fragmented expression could be another loophole.
In a nutshell, I view the overall presentation by Mr. Zhang quite well constructed. As you may notice, he used the very simple vocab to describe the story and make it short and sweet. That is not easily achievable by us all.
最后由沅芷澧兰于 2009-06-04 23:37:34编辑

Date: 2009-06-04 23:31:45

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引用Alexcwlin于2009-06-04 23:05发表的文章:
Now that I have earned 15 ICIBA points, 沅芷澧兰, can I take you out for a coffee at a cyber cafe where they accept ICIBA points for payment? haha. Alex...

Well, I guess you gotta check it out yourself, to show your sincerity. If not, you just owe me one and I'll take it back some other time.

Date: 2009-06-04 23:43:26

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Going to bed... kinda exhausted... Night, all, except for those running a different time zone.

Date: 2009-06-04 23:48:41

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引用Alexcwlin于2009-06-05 01:35发表的文章:
Hey, let's get this straight.

The guy that forks out the money (or ICIBA points in this case) is called the "boss".

The guy that doesn't have to pay and does the legwork is called the "gofer".

Everyone knows the "boss" tells the "gofer" what to do.

So if you don't mind, would you please go and find that cyber cafe and give me a report ...

The example you have quoted actually forms an employment contract, whereas in our case, it does not apply. You are the one who propose and invite me to coffee (let’s assume coffee to be your treat), I’m in the receiving end for the treat, which requires no provision of goods or services in return. Therefore, there is no formality of employer-employee relationship. Rather, what exists between us is a host-guest relation.

I hope I’ve made myself clear.

Btw, I dislike those who're bossy.

Date: 2009-06-05 12:37:13

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引用Alexcwlin于2009-06-05 22:30发表的文章:

A promise for a cup of coffee is a valid legal consideration. Your acceptance of my verbal offer for the said consideration has satisfied all the conditions in support of the existence of a binding legal contract under which it is understood to be of an employment nature. As such, you are fully obligated to fulfill your duti...

You confused the basic elements of a contract, dear Alex. A promise in this context is an offer but not a consideration. Consideration takes place only after acceptance. In the first place, you made an offer, the cup of coffee, for my acceptance consideration. The offer is only valid if the receiving party knows its attributes such as price and other details.

Whereas in your case, you do not even made it clear to me your offer - you asked me to go and check out where I could have this offer purchased. That’s why it’s an invalid offer which is not bound by any contract law.

Secondly, acceptance is formed only after the “buyer” accept to take in the offer at the mutually agreed terms and there’s a timeframe associated to it. In our case, I never said things such as “ok, I’ll go to coffee with you” or anything implying that I accept your invitation to treat. Thus there’s no acceptance.

Lacking of both valid offer and proper acceptance, what is that so-called “contract”? Dear Alex, I definitely know that you are not a lawyer as lawyers don’t make such error in the basic understanding of the legal terms.

FYI, I’m not a lawyer. But I took up business law module during my bachelor degree of business management studies, in which contract law is included.

Date: 2009-06-06 00:43:58

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引用Alexcwlin于2009-06-06 00:42发表的文章:
溟生: Absolutely, go ahead if you can find one.

But in the meantime, let's see how our little experiment fares purely on the basis of English writing skill and not translation, for the sake of everybody, OK?

Don't worry. I will remain a faceless nameless digital character on ICIBA if the opinion leans to my favor. I...

Take things easy, Alex. I've read your translation and personally I feel it's well done. However, I'm not in the position to judge which is better for I've not reached that depth to appreciate literature in such extent.
Put all the arguments aside, I have to admit that your English level is much higher than mine, and thus I would really want you to stay. Don't be away, at least you have my support, okay?

Date: 2009-06-06 00:57:50

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引用yestreenstar于2009-06-07 10:10发表的文章:
subpar English

He was referring to sub-par, meaning not up to standard. (par means standard here)

Date: 2009-06-07 23:20:46

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引用christinaseeing于2009-06-06 11:23发表的文章:
now i understand that you may ask this question because 'thanks' is used only for one person, right? if i wirte word 'thanks', that means i thank one person ? 'thanks' is 多谢, i thought my saying 'thanks' could reach both of you two at the same time, that's the wrong way? if i say thank to two person, i will say: thank...

No worries, don't take it so serious. :-)

Date: 2009-06-07 23:23:52

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引用Alexcwlin于2009-06-08 22:51发表的文章:
我有几个老外同事跟我说在中国他们有不快经验说英文俚语莫名其妙地导致中国下属勃然大怒，他们应付的方法便是谨慎说话，说得愈少愈好，结果便是下属减少机会跟他们学道地英语。

例如有一次一个员工跟一个老外讨论他怀才不遇，老外感叹地说: “Well, beggars can't be choosers". 意思是 "困境下不能选择", 没有一点侮辱成分，但那中国同事大声喝骂说翻译过来中文老外羞辱他说他是乞丐。
[f...

我不知道你是当真觉得 barrel of monkeys 这样的表达完全没有歧义还是由于其他什么原因否认它不完全正面的意思。我在另一个帖子已经作出相应回复了。我们就讨论一下好了~~

Date: 2009-06-08 23:24:25