主题：（参考译文）【C-E 翻译之星】郭沫若《路畔的蔷薇》

是不一样啊，真的很棒。 从中学到很多词语。

没错，张先生是国内数一数二的散文翻译大师。

什么时候我能到这种境界~~ 嗯，继续努力~~

请教一个问题, 病黄 sickly ivory-yellow
病黄是中文习惯,英文也是这样吗,我记得一个电影里字幕是你脸色很差, you're orange, 如果 sickly ivory-yellow 不符合英文习惯,为了贴和原作, 也要加上sickly?

sickly 在英文里经常用来修饰颜色的 这并没有不符合英文习惯

FYI, a sickly colour is used to describe unpleasantly pale. It's a common usage in English expression.

受教了!谢谢分享.

不客气

What? Did I only get 15 ICIBA points for talking all those nonsense? I can do better than that spending all that time babysitting some bratty kids in Toronto.
To get back at 溟生, I’m going to trash his idol’s translation a bit (Haha, Alex is a sore loser because other’s translation is better than his, Shame, shame, shame!).
1.       “Rambling” – Bad Choice of Word: If you check your dictionary, the word “ramble” has a sense of “aimlessness” in the meaning.

“Rambling” with the “-ing” means the action of “wandering aimlessly” was in progress.

It is abundantly clear from the Chinese script 清晨往松林里去散步that “I” was in the process of purposely going to the woods, and so saying that “I” was already “rambling” aimlessly in the woods is very inappropriate in my view.  

2.       “Deflowered”: The prima facie meaning of “deflower” means taking away the virginity through sex, or in Chinese, 夺取贞操.

Ladies and gentlemen, look at the corresponding Chinese script: “这是可怜的少女受了薄幸的男子的欺绐”. Don’t you think it’s more a sense of “betrayal” (背叛) than a “sex act”?

3.       Fragmented Sentence: English grammarians will slam someone for writing fragmented sentence like this: “Last night's whispers of love; this morning's drops of dew”. Where the heck is the “verb”?

Sure, a convenient excuse is informal English writing can stretch the grammar rule a little. In my experience, other than poems, writing informally does not give a person the license to write in bad grammar. You know what they say when you write in bad grammar. (haha, I’m not going to say what you think I will say).
Yes, I can keep going, but I think it’s enough to irritate 溟生 so much so he is going to ban me from this forum for good.
Adios, guys (“guys” in informal English include both male and female), it has been nice knowing you!

What? Did I only get 15 ICIBA points for talking all those nonsense (废话)? I can do better than that spending all that time babysitting (当临时保姆) some bratty (宠坏多无理要求) kids in Toronto.

To get back at  (报复) 溟生, I’m going to trash (大力评击) his idol’s (偶像的) translation a bit (Haha, Alex is a sore loser (输不起的失败者) because other’s (别人的) translation is better than his, Shame, shame, shame (羞愧)!).

1.       “Rambling” – Bad Choice of Word: If you check your dictionary, the word “ramble” (无目的地散步) has a sense (意识) of “aimlessness” (无目的) in the meaning (解释).

“Rambling” with the “-ing” means the action (动作) of “wandering aimlessly” (无目的地游荡) was in progress (正在进行).

It is abundantly (大量地) clear (清楚) from the Chinese script (手稿) “清晨往松林里去散步” that “I” was in the process (正在进行) of purposely (蓄意地) going to the woods (丛林), and so saying that “I” was already (已经) “rambling” aimlessly in the woods is very inappropriate (不适当) in my view (意见).  

2.       “Deflowered”: The prima facie (第一印象明显) meaning (解释) of “deflower” means taking away (拿走) the virginity (贞操) through sex (性行为), or in Chinese, 夺取贞操.

Ladies and gentlemen, look at the corresponding (相关) Chinese script (手稿): “这是可怜的少女受了薄幸的男子的欺绐”. Don’t you think (认为) it’s more a sense (意识) of “betrayal” (背叛) than a “sex act” (性行为)?

3.       Fragmented (不完整碎片) Sentence: English grammarians (文法家) will slam (严厉责备) someone for writing fragmented sentence (不完整碎片句子) like this (像这个): “Last night's whispers of love; this morning's drops of dew”. Where the heck is the “verb” (动词在哪)?

Sure (当然), a convenient (方便) excuse (借口) is informal (消闲) English writing can stretch (拉长) the grammar (文法) rule (规例) a little. In my experience (经验), other than poems (诗词), writing informally (不是严肃地) does not give a person the license (特权) to write in bad grammar (差劣文法). You know what they say when you write in bad grammar. (haha, I’m not going to say what you think I will say).

Yes, I can keep going (继续下去), but I think it’s enough (足够) to irritate (激怒) 溟生 so much so (到那一个程度) he is going to ban (禁止) me from this forum (论坛) for good (永远).

Adios (再见), guys (“guys” in informal English include both male and female). It has been nice knowing you (很高兴认识你们)!
最后由 Alexcwlin 于 2009-06-04 00:27:23编辑

First question, first answered. The explaination of 散步 in Xinhua Chinese Dictonary is 随意闲行. Since it is "随意", "散步" definitely bears the implication of being aimless. Thus, it is by no means unappropriate to render “散步”into "rambling".
最后由 溟生 于 2009-06-04 01:08:13编辑

2. Compared with Weterners, Chinese people are inclined to be more reserved, which is reflected in their writing as the implicit or indirect expression of taboos in Chinese culture, such as anything related to sex.  In this sense, "deflower" is just used to make the undermeaning crystal clear.
最后由 溟生 于 2009-06-04 01:08:40编辑

Yes, I can keep going (继续下去), but I think it’s enough (足够) to irritate (激怒) 溟生 so much so (到那一个程度) he is going to ban (禁止) me from this forum (论坛) for good (永远).

But, this is a kingdom of freedom, everyone is free to be here and free to learn English, haha.

3.      As a matter of fact, I've run across quite a few fragmental sentences in the classic English writings.
And these fragments, as u or rigid grammarians call it "bad grammer", faithfully reproduce the artistic effect of the source text, which is also a fragment, in terms of both form and meaning.
最后由 溟生 于 2009-06-04 01:09:09编辑

Absolutely. As the famous saying goes, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."  Surely, the prerequisite is that what u say does no harm to other Iciba friends or the learning environment.

I rest my case, guys.

The English dictionary definition of "ramble" is: "to go for a walk for pleasure, usually in the countryside and sometimes without a fixed route in mind." http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/ramble.html

Pay attention to the reference of "in mind", because in that scene 往松林里去散步“I” already made up his mind to go to the woods and not “rambling” at that instance when he came across the roses.

Secondly, “rambling” is grammatically present participle and present participle is defined as
"(grammar): A verb form that indicates an ongoing action..”

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/present_participle

In the Chinese script, clearly “I” was on the way to “rambling” and not already rambling. Isn’t that the case? If it is, then using “rambling” in that situation is inappropriate in my humble opinion.

I don’t mean to be picky in this issue. It’s just that when I read the sample translation in this regard, I cannot conjure up a picture that matches the picture depicted in the Chinese script. I’m giving you my honest opinion on why.

最后由 Alexcwlin 于 2009-06-04 05:00:15编辑

[quote]引用溟生于2009-06-04 00:49发表的文章:
2. Compared with Weterners, Chinese people are inclined to be more reserved, which is reflected in their writing as the implicit or indirect expression of taboos in Chinese culture, such as anything related to sex.  In this sense, "deflower" is just used to make the undermeaning crystal clear.

This is not a matter of whether “deflowering” should be expressed explicitly (明显地) or subtly (含蓄地).
It is a matter of whether “deflowering” is a fitting (适当) translation of the subject (主题) sentence in the Chinese article (文章).
这是可怜的少女受了薄幸的男子的欺绐
薄幸: [fickle] 薄情;负心。也指负心的人http://zdic.net/cd/ci/16/ZdicE8Zdic96Zdic8428031.htm
欺绐: 欺骗。汉桓宽 http://zdic.net/cd/ci/12/ZdicE6ZdicACZdicBA158173.htm
If you look at the sentence closely (谨慎详细), saying “deflowering” fits into the intent (意图) of the sentence is really stretching (过分扩展范围) it.
That is why I keep saying phrases such as “breaking a relationship (脱离关系) unilaterally (单方面)” or “two-timing (对伴侣不忠)” would be the proper fit (适合).
For your information, subtlety (含蓄) in expressing (表达) tabooed terms (忌讳术语) is universal (世界性), not just with us Chinese.
最后由 Alexcwlin 于 2009-06-05 23:01:34编辑

[quote]引用溟生于2009-06-04 01:00发表的文章:
3.      As a matter of fact, I've run across quite a few fragmental sentences in the classic English writings.
And these fragments, as u or rigid grammarians call it "bad grammer", faithfully reproduce the artistic effect of the source text, which is also a fragment, in terms of both form and meaning.
最后由 Alexcwlin 于 2009-06-05 23:03:09编辑

引用溟生于2009-06-04 01:15发表的文章:

I don't think I did anything wrong which deserves ur "getting back at me".
How unreasonable it is!

溟生: Where's your sense of humor?

Don't you think it's a more interesting way to introduce my points than to say: "Well, I think it should be this way." Alex

最后由 Alexcwlin 于 2009-06-04 02:15:06编辑